I received the following comment from John regarding my post on the strip club tax, and I thought it was interesting:
Devil's Advocate question: Do strip clubs actually discourage violence against women by providing a safer, legal outlet for sexually frustrated men?
I'm not a patron of these establishments, but it's difficult to argue that they meet a demand. If that demand is not met there, where will it be met? Is it better to have men turning to strippers or prostitutes? You can argue the answer is "neither", but that's Utopian rather than pragmatic. For what it's worth, friends of mine who do frequent gentlemen's clubs tend not to view it as objectification, and prefer a relationship (albeit a brief and artificial one) with dancers. Whether that's their cover story or the truth, I have no idea. But the guys aren't the pigs one associates with strip club patrons.
The tax is probably a good thing. It won't affect demand, in the same way raising the cigarette tax doesn't really get anyone to quick smoking. You could probably triple it and not have an effect. If anything, men will spend the same amount of money and $5 per patron fewer will go towards the female independent contractors on stage, who generally work entirely on tips.
Incidentally, sorry to be spamming your comments section, but you post interesting articles. :)
First of all, John, do not apologize for commenting on my blog; I'm just thrilled I have readers! :) Plus, it's nice to get comments that are actually well-thought out and articulated, as opposed to the angry, "Shut up, you lesbian bitch" comments I sometimes get. :P (I'm neither a lesbian nor a bitch, by the way!)
On to your comment: Yes, at the most basic level, I suppose one could argue that strip clubs provide an outlet for sexually frustrated men, and therefore may reduce the violence against women. Instead of a man going out and trying to date rape a woman he meets in a bar, he can go to a strip club, get a lap dance (and possibly an orgasm, if it's in the VIP room), and be good to go. So yes, I understand where you're coming from.
However, at a deeper level, I don't think this argument works. Sexual violence (i.e., rape) usually has nothing to do with sex and orgasms themselves; instead, it's a way for men to exert power and control over women. If sex wasn't involved, they would find some other way to "rape" a woman by controlling and demeaning her in some other fashion. So just because a man may be sexually satisfied by a stripper or a prostitute does not mean that he won't rape someone else, since the two actions are not, in all likelihood, correlated.
Secondly, I think the fact that these institutions are even in our society (and considered "normal;" typical bachelor party, anyone?) demonstrates the perceived inequality between men and women that still permeates our societal standards. Men are usually (although not always) valued for their intelligence, ambition, and work ethic. If a woman is attractive, she is valued for her looks. It doesn't matter how intelligent she is, how ambitious, or how hard-working; if she's attractive, her looks are what define her. Men who frequent these establishments expect that women will be there to service them and provide sexual pleasure; the women are, in essence, objects available for purchase. How on earth is this supposed to advance our quest for equality? Women, on the other hand, do not (usually) view men in the same manner (nor do I think they should).
The problem is that it extends into other areas of society, as well. Unfortunately, I do not have the source on me right now (I'm at work, and all my college textbooks are at home), but studies have been done that show that men who patronize such establishments or partake of pornography tend to view all women through that lens; i.e., if she's attractive, she's worthwhile, if she's unattractive, she's not. They had both men who consumed pornography/frequented strip clubs and those who did not "interview" various women for job positions. Those who did not take part in such activities remembered things about the woman such as her intelligence, previous work experience, and what they thought she could bring to the table. The men who were regular viewers of porn (or regularly went to strip clubs) remembered more of her physical aspects; i.e., she was big-busted, or unattractive, or too "old," etc. This demonstrates, to me, that men who frequent strip clubs are not just objectifying the women in the establishment (which is disrespectful enough in and of itself), but this objectifying attitude extends to the rest of society, as well, and since men still traditionally hold the positions of power, their attitudes can have a major impact on a woman's life and her career. That is my major complaint with it.
Of course, I am not saying that institutions like this should be outlawed; my pro-choice stance extends to pretty much everything, and that includes strip clubs. I may not like it, and I may not agree with it, but I am not going to try to take away someone's choice to patronize these establishments. What I am hoping for is a change in viewpoint among both the men and women in our society. I wish that both sexes would understand that it's disrespectful, degrading, and will ultimately get us nowhere in the quest for equality between men and women.
Friday, January 25, 2008
More on the Strip Club Tax
Posted by Amanda at 8:25 AM
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2 comments:
As a rich white male representative of the phallocracy, my view is inherently pretty biased. ;)
I think you can argue that rather than a perceived inequality between men and women, one of the things adult clubs and porn demonstrate is an inherent difference between the base interests of (most) men and women. I'm an economist by training, so I tend to see most things in a monetary sense... if there were more of a demand for male porn, I have no doubt there would be more of it. There's certainly no lack of it now, and contrary to common perception, it's not ALL aimed at gay men. I don't think it's all about the power struggle... men are just more into anonymous sexual encounters than women are. (Is that itself indicative of the power struggle? Biological? Who knows. Different discussion.) Men's Revues tend to be successful in limited runs. Are they different from women's strip shows? I can't meaningfully comment on either, but there is a non-zero demand for porn and strip clubs aimed at women.
That's not meant to disprove your point re: power imbalances and gender inequity with a counter-example, but I personally see a more pragmatic than philosophical view to the issue. If enough women were into it, the flesh peddlers would make just as much porn aimed at women as is aimed at men. Probably more, since men work cheaper in the skin industry.
I do think it's a shame that people view the world through a distorted lens that favors either gender in the workplace. That's the kind of thing that takes a generation or more to affect, and my fellow "sensitive caring men of the 90s" and I are doing our best to help that along. But changing those attitudes towards porn is tough, and you enter into some odd territory when you talk about implementing any changes. It's not really possible to kill people's desire for a vicarious, non-personal approach to relationships and the opposite sex. (If the specter of AIDS didn't do it, what will?) How do you demonize porn without demonizing sex? Do you just push the porn underground? Isn't it just more dangerous there? The same question applies to most hotbed issues... abortion, drug legalization, prostitution, prohibition, etc. Push them underground, they get more dangerous.
Long and short of it, I agree with you... if we could change people's attitudes on the relationship between gender and sexuality, that would be a good thing all around. I just don't see how that happens on anything other than an individual level. Enough individuals = everybody, but that takes a while. Without something akin to the civil right's movement, there's just not the momentum, and ironically the rise of the feminist movement coincided almost exactly with the mainstreaming of porn.
It's all a weird tangled mess. Reading back at this comment, I'm not sure we're arguing the same thing, and we're mostly on the same side anyway. So even if the points are tangential, I hope they're interesting. :)
Oh, and I forgot to add, shut up, you lesbian bitch. ;)
I just wanted to say thanks for the kind words on the FC board. I really appreciate it. I've never visited your blog before, but I'm looking forward to reading it as my curiousity is piqued for sure.
Thanks again!
Kimberly
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